CCRU home background on CCRU community relations equality and equity research

Third Public Discussion

Central Library, April 13, 1995.

An excerpt from "Exodus", (a play by Gary Mitchell from a concept of Roy Arbuckle's) in which the character, "Alice", a middle aged woman in an overall and holding a brush, muses about her life. The excerpt was read by Ann Corr.

Some people were put out of their houses. Petrol bombed, threatened. Some people ran away, frightened. There was a lot of stories. A lot of lies. A lot of pretending to be victims went on. They just wanted new houses. Bad things happened. Lives ruined and wasted, a lot of young lives lost.

This place just, fell apart, really. Ye would hear about the knock on the door and there's them standing there, cheeky as you like saying - 'When are you's leaving, we've a family waiting to move in. Can I see inside? And the rumours and the legends, I still think about them.

Redevelopment - remember that one. I can't see it happen. People plucked out of their houses, some had lived in them all their lives. Up and out. Of course they'll be allowed back. And when they come back the area will be a better place to live. Better houses, better streets. And how much would this cost us? - that's what wee Mrs. Thompson used to complain about. Cost more than we thought, though, didn't it. Hardly anyone came back. Some said they were told they didn't meet the requirements for the new houses, not enough points. There was people worse off, people who needed houses. Catholics! Was it a plan? Was it a mistake? Or did it just happen? I don't know. I never asked for a new street. I liked the streets the way they were - Corporation Street, Barrack Street, Rosemount- eh? The Glen! Ivy Terrace, the Foyle Road - there was nothing wrong with these streets. I loved them, playing in them - well?

I came back. Seen it all. The riots in William Street and the Bog. The soldiers - the police - the Provos - the bombing - the shootings. Seen it all, so I did. The barbed wire - my wee nephew gazing up at me as if the world had fallen apart and he almost choked as he spoke - 'Your house is burning'. Our house is burning. It was always in my head, I'm not moving. Too many did. Somewhere inside something said, stay. And so I did. I love this place. Means everything - means memories. I'm tired. Getting old now alright. Still......

I was on a committee. I joined the Defenders. They were trying to take our land. Take our houses. Take our jobs. Catholics, all they do is take, take, take. Take the eyes out of your head. Take the weans if you let them.

Throwing stones one night. All hell broke loose. I had gone out to make sure our ones were alright. I lifted a few stones and put them in my pocket - well, you never know. The young tartans were going mad, like savages. Crazy kids. Stones, bricks, anything. A little boy's hair and jumper suddenly burst into flames. He was in charge of preparing the petrol bombs. Something had gone wrong, it was just an accident. He rolled around on the ground. I rushed over as fast as I could, but it seemed to take forever. Everybody thought the fenians did it. There was going to be hell to pay. And there was. Revenge. I don't know how many young ones got hurt because of that. Hundreds were beaten up and stuff. The guns were out.

Something had gone wrong, something had changed. I had changed. I opened my eyes and seen what was going on. And I didn't like what I seen. I left the town. Me nerves were wrecked. I got out. Our young ones were getting a while lot of bother. Trouble was always just around the corner. Our youngest got a kicking.

So....So here I am, after all these years. Just had to get back here. I just couldn't resist coming back over. Just wanted to be in the old place, but it's not here. Just like the people. All gone. I suppose what I really want to get back is some to the old feelings. But they're gone and....I really must be going too.

Alice clears the place up and leaves, slowly.

Population Movement: The Statistics.

Marie Smyth
Templegrove Action Research
University of Ulster
Magee College.

Segregation is not new in Ireland but predates the partition of the island and the creation of the Northern Ireland state: it therefore also predates the present troubles. The overall balance in the population between Catholics and Protestants has been a matter of political interest and concern for both parties, and the ratio of Protestants to Catholics has not remained constant in Northern Ireland as whole, as is illustrated in Table 1.

Table 1

Year of
none other
18611,396,45340.9% 57.7%1.3%
18711,359,19039.3% 58.3%2.4%
18811,304,81638.0% 58.8%3.1%
18911,236,05636.3% 60.1%3.4%
19011,236,95234.8% 61.2%3.9%
19111,250,53134.4% 61.4%4.0%
19261,256,56133.5% 62.2%4.1%
19371.279.74533.5% 61.8%4.5%
19511,370,92134.4% 60.6%4.6%
19611,425,04234.9% 58.2%5.0%
19711,519,64031.4% 53.4%5.8%
19811,481,95928.0% 45.9%7.6%
19911,577,83638.4% 42.8%7.8%

Source: Northern Ireland Census: Religion Tables

Some areas of Northern Ireland have been predominantly Catholic or Protestant over long periods of time, due to a complex of economic, social and political factors. Within Belfast in the present day, segregation is very marked, and it is estimated that 50% of the total population of Northern Ireland live in areas that are 90% or more Catholic of Protestant. The distribution of segregation throughout Northern Ireland is illustrated in Table 2.

Within Northern Ireland as a whole, segregation was markedly increased by the population movement of the early 1970's and has been steadily, if less dramatically, increasing ever since. This can be seen in Belfast by examining ward populations by religion, as McKitterick has done. (see Table 3) The trend of Protestants moving out of Belfast into the hinterlands of North Down and corresponding moves in other areas has been referred to as the greening of our cities, due to the increased proportion of Catholics within cities.

Table 2

Religions of the Population: Local Government Districts (1991)

Antrim44,51631.7 46.721.6
Ards64,76411.3 62.825.7
Armagh51,81745.4 39.515.1
Ballymena56,64118.3 60.621.0
Ballymoney24,19830.2 52.417.4
Banbridge33,48227.6 49.622.8
Belfast279,23739.0 40.420.7
Carrickfergus32,750 6.964.228.9
Castlereagh60,7999.4 61.628.9
Coleraine50,43822.4 58.119.6
Cookstown31,08253.2 33.513.4
Craigavon74,98640.1 40.419.5
Derry95,371 69.520.9 9.7
Down58,00856.0 27.316.9
Dungannon45,42855.7 32.911.3
Fermanagh54,03354.9 34.310.8
Larne29,41922.1 55.622.4
Limavady29,56751.7 35.812.5
Lisburn99,45626.9 51.621.4
Magherafelt36,29358.9 27.613.6
Moyle 14,78952.2 36.411.4
and Mourne




Newtownabbey74,03513.0 60.826.2
North Down71,8329.0 63.127.9
Omagh45,80964.3 25.510.1
Strabane36,14161.8 30.67.7

Source: Northern Ireland Census 1991: Religion Tables

Table 3
Belfast - The Segregated City

The Mount991
Crumlin Road982
Glencairn **8911
Upper Malone8218
St Annes **7921
Fortwilliam *7624
Castleview *7030
Malone *6436
Cavehill *6238
Cliftonville **4357
Bellevue *4159
Finaghy *3763
Chichester Park *31 69
Botanic30 70
Ladybrook **1387
New Lodge595
Falls Park-100
Glen Road-100
Upper Springfield-100

** signifies wards which seem to have some degree of integration, but which are (contd over)

in fact internally segregated, sometimes by peace lines * signifies those which are on the face of it integrated. Closer inspection shows, however, that they were once predominantly Protestant but that Protestants are steadily moving out.

Table 3 Source: McKitterick, David. Apartheid Deepens on the Streets of Ulster.
The Independent on Sunday, 21 March 1993.

The overall trend of population movement over the last twenty years has been towards increased segregation. At the time the research began, that same trend - that of Protestants moving out of the city - had been apparent in Derry Londonderry. A static picture of the population of the city can be derived from the 1991 census, and we have calculated the percentages of the population for each denomination in Table 4.

Table 4
Derry/Londonderry Local Government District
Religion by age and sex
Extracted from: The NI Census 1991: Religion Reports

Total MaleFemale
Total Population(100%) 95,37146,70848,663
Roman Catholic (69.48%) 66,26032,13234,128
Presbyterian(11.05%) 10,5395,1465,393
Church of Ireland(8.91%) 8,5034,1694,334
Methodist (0.89%) 853 404449
Total Protestant(20.85%) 19,895 9,71910,176
Other denominations(2.76%) 2,6291,4341,195
None(1.42%)1,353 817336
Not Stated(5.49%)5,234 2,6062,628
Total other, none
&not stated





From this static picture, we can see that the city was predominantly Catholic (69.48%) at the point when the 1991 census was taken. In the context of Northern Ireland, Derry Londonderry has the second highest percentage of Catholics in the population of any local government district, the highest being Newry & Mourne. Derry Londonderry also has the fourth lowest percentage of Presbyterians, the second lowest percentage of Church of Ireland residents, and the sixth lowest percentage of Methodists. The total Protestant population in the city area accounted for 20.85% of the total population, with 9.67% of the population being of "other" denominations, "none" or they did not state their religion. Some of those who are categorised as "other" are undoubtedly Protestant, so the Protestant percentage of the population is likely to be somewhat higher than 9.67%. Whilst these figures tell us about the population balance in 1991, they do not establish the movement of population and the changing balance of population.

Certain groups, namely the political parties, had an interest in researching this phenomenon, and data was collected from them. The Democratic Unionist Party provided the figures which they used which were based on the number of votes cast for unionist candidates in elections since 1973.

Table 5
Democratic Unionist Party Figures

Numbers of votes cast for all Unionist candidates

Turnout 60% - 65%

Source: Democratic Unionist Party

Whilst these figures are useful, they do not necessarily determine the change in Protestant population from 1973 to 1993 for a number of reasons. First, they reflect the number of votes cast, and not everyone in the population votes - the turnout rate varies, we are told from 60 to 65 percent so the figures reflect only 60 to 65% of the total population. Second, we cannot necessarily assume that all Protestants vote unionist, or that all unionist voters are Protestant, although this will be so in a majority of cases. Third, the electoral boundaries changed a number of times during the period 1973 to 1993 due to electoral reform, so the size of the electorate altered because of the redrawing of electoral boundaries and the consequent difference in the area delineated by the political boundaries. Therefore, it is not possible to derive an accurate picture of the changing balance of population from the Democratic Unionist Party figures. The impression gained by a cursory glance at these figures is that the Protestant/Unionist population is actually increasing, but this may not be the case.

The Ulster Unionist Party provided us with the figures in Table 6. These figures make allowances for the change in voting age between the 1974 and the 1992 elections, and estimate the total population by including figures for the population under voting age by reference to the numbers of registered births assumed to be Protestant. Some of the same difficulties exist with these figures as with the DUP figures, namely unionist voters may not be synonymous with Protestant voters, and electoral boundary changes have occurred in the period 1968 to 1992 covered by the figures. Furthermore, numbers registered to vote will not provide total population figures, nor will registered births take account of inward migration of births registered elsewhere, or outward migration of births registered in the area.

Table 6
Ulster Unionist Party Records
Protestant Elections

age 21
& over

under 21

1968Greater Waterside 9611
Lower Waterside4291
West Bank8287 269011247
Total22189 779629985
1974Rural Waterside 7467
West Bank6108 20688176
Total18831 737026201
Over 18
1992Summary West Bank 2520183(6.8%)
East Bank Rural7682 2341(23.36%)
Waterside8605 3684(30%)
Total18807 62082505

The task was to find a reasonably accurate way of establishing the changing population balance in the city over the last twenty years. Figures that referred to political boundaries over a twenty year period could not be relied on, since these boundaries has changed.

The Northern Ireland Census of Population was the obvious source of data, with the limitation that the 1981 census figures were not reliable, because of the political turmoil when the census was being taken and the resultant incomplete nature of the results. However, the 1971 and 1991 figures could still provide a basis for comparison over the twenty year period. The capacity to extract census data based on grid references for grid squares of the Ordnance Survey of Northern Ireland allowed the establishment of a constant geographical boundary.

In order to quantify the population trends in the city area, small area statistics on a grid square basis from the 1971, 1981, and 1991 Census of Population for Northern Ireland were extracted.

The first examination was of the population figures by religion for the entire city area, using a grid square which is approximately bounded by Termon House on the Letterkenny Road in the South West, Drumahoe Bridge in the South East, Thornhill College in the North East and the Sewage Works at Elagh Road in the North West. We extracted total population figures from the 1971, 1981 and 1991 census of population, and a breakdown by religion for each year. As was mentioned earlier, the figures for 1981 are not entirely reliable due to difficulties with the return rate in that census.

Table 7

19711981 1991
Total Roman Catholics40188 3785554658
Total Protestants 15907 12125 10924
Total Presbyterian8134 58285463
Total C of Ireland6800 57054873
Total Methodists973 592588
Total "other" & "not stated" 911913492 4921
Total population 65214 6347270503

Nevertheless, an examination of these figures for the urban area of the city shows a change in the ratio of Protestants to Catholics in the city, a substantial decline in the overall total Protestant population in the city as a whole.( See Table 7)

The second examination of the statistics was aimed at establishing internal migration within the urban area. For this purpose, an examination of the small area statistics using grid squares was conducted. A patchwork of grid squares which approximated the Waterside and Cityside areas was constructed, and the total population figures, again broken down by religion, were examined. Table 8 shows the Waterside figures, and Table 9 shows the figures for the Cityside.

Table 8

19711981 1991
Total Roman Catholic7708 59308032
Total Protestant7849 92449935
Total Presbyterian4167 44345053
Total Church of Ireland3063 43054336
Total Methodist619505 546
Total other, none & not stated 2709 3854 3093
Total other976826 1343
Total not stated1733 30281263
Total none-- 487
Total population present
on census night



Total population usually resident -1902821060

Grid references: C455180-C470200: C420150-C430160: C435150-C470160:C430150-C435155: C455160-C464180: C440160-C455185

The Waterside Catholic population figures for 1981 as with other figures for that year, (particularly for the Catholic population) are not reliable. Nonetheless, there has been a small increase in the Catholic population in the Waterside, from 7708 in 1971 to 8032 in 1991: an increase of 324. The increase in the Waterside Protestant population is somewhat larger: from 7849 in 1971 to 9935 in 1991: an increase of 1903.

An examination of the figures for the Cityside (Table 9) shows that there has also been an increase in the Catholic population in the Cityside, from 33951 in 1971 to 48233 in 1991, an increase of 14282. The Protestant population, on the other hand , has decreased from 8459 in 1971 to 1407 in 1991, a decrease of 7052. This decrease of 7052 is not offset by the increase of 1903 in the Waterside Protestant population. The overall trend in population movement is of Protestant movement out of the city area completely.

Table 9

19711981 1991
Total Roman Catholics33951 3268348233
Total Protestants 8459 28741407
Total Presbyterian4227 1444656
Total Church of Ireland 3861 1327690
Total Methodist371103 61
Total other, none & not stated 670699873810
Other denominations total 825 574532
Not stated total5881 94132755
Total none-- 523
Total persons present on census night 4962345238 53088
Total person usually resident- 4554453450

Grid references: C430160-C440220: C420150-C430220: C450182-C455212: C410155-C420212: C440182-C450220: C430150-C435160

Table 7 suggests that the decline in the Protestant population for the city as a whole is 4983 over the twenty year period. Tables 8 and 9, which use different land boundaries to those used in Table 7, suggest that the overall decline in Protestant population in the Cityside of 7052 is somewhat offset by an increase in the Waterside Protestant population of 1903, giving an overall decline of 5149 for the city as a whole . It seems reasonable to conclude, therefore, that the city population of Protestants has declined by at least 5000 people.

However, this figure may be an underestimation. It has been argued that the majority of those who respond "none" to the religion question on the census are, in fact, Protestant. Bearing this in mind, we should note -, according to Table 7 - an overall decline in this category in the overall city population of 4198. There has been an equivalent increase of 384 in the Waterside "none, other and not stated" population in the twenty year period, giving some credence to the view that these people are, in fact, Protestant. A corresponding decline in the same population in the Cityside (see Table 9) of 2896 would tend to confirm this view. This means that the overall decrease citywide in this category is 2512 people.

Potentially, therefore, the population loss of Protestants to the city is 5149 plus some of this number: a maximum potential loss of 7661, although it is unlikely that all of the 2512 "none other and not stated" category are Protestants.

What is evident from an examination of the Cityside and Waterside figures is an internal shift of Protestants from the east to the west banks of the city, in the context of an overall decline in the Protestant population of the city of between five to six and a half thousand people.

Some of these changes in population balance are not due to migration, but to natural increases in the population. Migration occurs for a variety of reasons, and sometimes a combination of several reasons: upward mobility; acquisition of better housing; employment; decline of the area due to vandalism, redevelopment, as well as fear, intimidation and sectarian issues. The results of the Londonderry analysis of the Regional Household Survey 1978 sheds some light on this:

Table 10
Reasons for Moving

Dwelling Too Big1502
Dwelling Too Small2683 44
Set Up Independent Household1597 26
To Be Nearer Work921 15
To Be Nearer Children62 1
To Be Nearer Parents312 5
To Be Nearer Relatives814 13
Better Social Environment2598 42
Change Tenure To NIHE356 6
Change Tenure To Private Renting- -
House Purchase68411
To Increase Mortgage62 1
To Lower Rent501
Religious/Political105 2
Others(Mobility Problems
Poor Dwelling Conditions)


Total Recent Migrants6153 100

Source: Regional Household Survey 1971-1978: Londonderry District Analysis

Table 10 shows that only 2% of those who moved in 1978 gave religious or political reasons for doing so. Whilst some of those who give moving to a better social environment as a reason for moving may be influenced by sectarian division in their decision to move, nonetheless, it is clear from Table 10 that economic reason, or housing conditions predominate as reasons to move.

Enclave areas

Small area statistics for two communities within the city were also examined. Population figures for a Protestant enclave on the cityside -The Fountain- and a Catholic enclave on the Waterside - Gobnascale - were examined to determine trends within enclave communities. The geographic definition of the Fountain community proved problematic, in that the community boundaries have contracted with the decline in population. Contemporary community boundaries as defined by current residents were used, and the figures here are the nearest grid square data within those boundaries.

Table 11

as a %age of the total 1971 population 10052.1136.43
Total Roman Catholic203 7564
Total Presbyterians492 183130
Total Church of Ireland562 294144
Total Methodist71 3016
Total "other", "none" & "not stated" 1089683

What emerges from the examination of the Fountain small area statistics is the severity of the population decline. Preliminary qualitative work indicates that a variety of factors appear to be involved in this depopulation: redevelopment; the housing market; a particular form of housing blight; and sectarian issues including violence and intimidation. What is clear is that the Fountain is a community which requires urgent and special support, if it is to survive geographically, culturally and socially. The religious balance of the population - predominantly Protestant - remains virtually unaltered, as is illustrated in figures 1 to 3.

Figure 1

Figure 2

Figure 3

The population figures and religious breakdown for Gobnascale were examined using the same definition and method of extracting the data.

Table 12

Total Roman Catholics1098 12461190
Total Presbyterians200 215
Total Church of Ireland156 130
Total Methodist41 00
Total Other, None & Not Stated 268461117

Whilst the total Catholic population in the area has fluctuated slightly, there has been a dramatic decline in all other denominations, including a decline in the category "Other, None and Not Stated." If these data are plotted on pie charts, the changing religious balance of the Gobnascale population between 1971 and 1991 is apparent. (see Figures 4-6.)

Figure 4

Figure 5

Figure 6

The marked trend towards increased segregation is evident. This trend is symptomatic of a wider trend towards an increase in internal segregation in two communities, which we suggest may be indicative of a trend towards increased segregation in the wider society.


This preliminary work on the census data for the city area shows:

  • 1. a change in the ratio of Protestants to Catholics in the city, due to substantial decline in the overall total Protestant population in the city as a whole;

    2. an internal shift of Protestants from the east to the west banks;

    3. an increase in internal segregation in two communities, which we suggest may be indicative of a wider trend towards increased segregation.

These can be summarised as follows:

Total city area

  • +36% increase in Catholic population
    -31% decrease in Protestant population
    Overall 8% increase in city population


  • +4% increase in Catholic population
    +27% increase in Protestant population
    Overall 12% increase in Waterside population


  • +30% increase in Catholic population
    -83% decrease in Protestant population
    Overall 7% increase in Cityside population


Written by Robert Herdman and read by James King.

So now you all know. 7,000 Prods don't want to live here anymore. And I suppose ye've all got your own ideas why. Siege mentality, Protestant intransigence, if them Prods would accept that they're Irish everything would be all right.

Well to tell you the truth, I don't know why any more than you do. But I do know this. I know what happened to my own family.

Starts with me da. Working class Derryman born in Ivy Terrace, married me ma in the thirties. Along came the war and he joined the army same as mostly everybody else he knew. He must have had the odd bit of home leave, I was conceived at Christmas 1943. I don't really know when me six sisters and three brothers were conceived. Ye sorta don't ask them questions. Me da came back from the army in 1949 to a home fit for heros. Two rooms and a wee scullery in the shadow of Derry jail, outside toilet and six children. Aye, there was only six of us at that time. No job, no prospects. Life on the dole, except for a few years building Altnagelvin Hospital. He ended up a night porter in a hotel. We had hotels then. That was grand, until one night some bastard broke in and nearly killed him, - did kill him in a way. He was never the same again. Died of cancer in 1976.

And what about the rest of us? Ten weans altogether. Ten Presbyterian weans growing up in Derry in the 50's and 60's. Six girls four boys. The six girls: four married British Servicemen, went to England, never came back, except for weddings and funerals and the odd holiday. I suppose they're English now. They'll never come back now. Two of them are still here, married and living in the Waterside.

Four boys. There's me of course: one's a Trade Unionist, one joined the British Army, just like me Da and me uncles. One in a wheelchair all his life. Three still here. Guess which one lives in England now? I was away meself for ten years, Dublin, England, Holland, all over the place. Don't really know why I came back, - but when I did, I couldn't leave again. This is my place. I belong here, my people belong here. I'm not going anywhere.

And me Ma - born in the Fountain, worked in the Star factory, married me Da, gave birth to us all, - don't know how she fed us. I can still see her, up to her oxters in the kitchen sink washing clothes. The smell of bleach always reminds me of her. The All Cash Stores, "Put it on the book." "Sorry, tell your ma she'll have to pay off some of what she owes me before she can get any more." All Cash Stores, - cash?

So I've mentioned twelve of us now, twelve of us, born and bred and buttered on the Derry side, all gone. Why? The girls that married the sailors, that was all before the bother and before the Navy pulled out, too. D'ye remember the Navy?

Wonder how many Derry girls married sailors, must be thousands. And Yanks! D'ye mind the Yanks? Marry me honey and come and live in my cattle ranch in the Bronx. The first time I ever got drunk in me life was in the Yankee Base. The two sisters that married Derrymen, they're over in the Waterside now. Weekly shopping in Stewarts, might come to the Richmond centre at Christmas, more likely to go to Coleraine or Limavady. Now, they didn't move because of the bother, but they won't move back because of it. The Waterside was the only place they could get a house after they got married. Choices. When ye've no money ye've no choices.

Me brother lived in a flat in Great James Street, until the Provos blew up Warwick Wallpapers. His wean was lifted clean out of the cot by the blast. That was it for him. See the corporation - we had a corporation then - get a house in Newbuildings. He was a socialist, ye know, supported Civil Rights and all. Provos put an end to that. Maybe Seamus Heaney'll write a poem, "Death of a Socialist". Me other brother was in the B men. How do you explain that? Two brothers, a year apart, - light years apart. He drove a delivery van, mad about cars, bought a Mini on HP, couldn't keep up the payments, joined the Army. Served two tours of Norn Iron. Me ma's nerves were wrecked. He's retired now and living in England. Couldn't ever come home, especially after Ranger Best. He'll never come back now. We all had to go over when he married an English girl in 1970. It was the last time our family was all together in the one place.

Me ma stayed on the Derry side until 1983, through all the bombs and bother and Bloody Sundays and Fridays. Her, and me brother in the wheelchair, finally moved to a pensioner's bungalow in Nelson Drive. "Sure it'll be grand for ye, all on the flat, nice and warm, ye don't need that big house now that everybody's gone, and we'll come in the car and take ye to Stewarts every week. Sure we're all over here now."

How do you describe what happens when an old woman is lifted out of root? It's not very dramatic, stuff that ye don't really notice, till its too late. No more wee danders down the town for the messages, no more wee cups of coffee in Austins, no more bingo with her mates at the Services Club or Saint Columb's Hall. T.V., daytime soaps, keep the house clean. Life is something that happens to ye. She's dead this last eight years now.

I can only think of two or three boys that I grew up with still living on the Derry side. None of them socialise in the city. Everybody they knew, all the clubs and sporty things they did are in the Waterside now. The writing was on the wall when the cops moved out of Belmont. It wasn't safe for the cops, how could it be safe for us? The writing was on the walls, "Brits Out", "A Nation Once Again", "Ireland Unfree Will Never Be At Peace".

Gave a boy a lift one wet day in 1969. "Terrible times isn't it?" `'Can't make an omelette without breaking eggs,`' he said. That's fine. Long as you're not the egg.

Humpty Dumpty sat on the wall
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall
all the King's Horses and all the King's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again.

Responses to the presentations

The following points were main during small group discussions.

Protestant Drift out of the City

* It is unnecessary for Protestants to go but there is a lot of fear among Protestants.

* Class, has played a role in who moved out and who stayed.


* The other factor involved in living amongst your own, in a Protestant or Catholic area is the fear of the unknown and the fear of meeting the other.

* To learn that there is a trend towards increased segregation is disheartening.

* There should be a choice to live within a Protestant or Catholic community. This choice must be available for safety reasons.

* The Catholic hierarchy fear that integrated schooling will weaken the Catholic religion.

A widespread nature of sectarianism.

* * Small farming communities of under fifty houses seem to show a greater tolerance in comparison to urban communities. Public housing estates in the country were exposed to sectarianism similar to that in urban developments.

* Is sectarianism in working class communities expressed in physical form, but in middle class areas confined to literature and culture?

* There is unhappiness with the severe lack of input from the council on the issue of

addressing sectarian attacks, both Unionist representatives and Nationalist/ Republicans being irresponsible on this matter.

* Protestants from the East Bank perceived a disparity of Funding allocated to the City over the last twenty years.

* Churches should preach more on Christianity and less on sectarian division.

* Some Catholics feel that Protestants considered themselves better.

Living in a "mixed" city

* Protestants needed to move back into the city in order for things to change.

* Is the cityside a safe location for Protestants?

* Has there ever been a mixed city pre 1968-1969?

*Living in a mixed city would be ideal.

* There are walls around the communities here, it is a long road to the ideal mixed city and in the meantime, realistically speaking some people will stay as they are.

* Living in a mixed city would be undesirable. There are Protestant who presently feel unwelcome and feel that they are being forced out of the city side.

* We don't have a mixed community but we desire it. Speaking as a member of the Protestant community on the West Bank, this community is very small- 4% of population on West Bank is Protestant.

* Re-integration of Protestants and Catholics depends on the peace process. Given a genuine peace and tolerance, Protestants may return to the West Bank private sector to be near work and institutions of learning. The three remaining West bank Protestant enclaves could be made more attractive by providing a better quality of housing, and must be rendered safe from violent attack and hostile encroachment. Space to develop is necessary.

* Segregation is seen as unhealthy and unnatural yet attracting funds for integration should be made easier. Funding is required to achieve social conditions and attract Protestants back from the West Bank.

* Some young people want things to change and to move on.

* Young people living in Catholic areas expressed fears of their areas becoming mixed. If the area became 30%-50% Protestant, there was a fear of trouble breaking out.

* If the Waterside was not integrated, then what hope is there for integration in the Cityside.

* Private housing seems to be the best suited to enable mixing. If public housing was more interspersed with private housing a better degree of social as well as religious /political understanding would ensue.

Responsibilities to minorities.

* Generosity from the Catholic / Nationalist majority should be extended to the Protestant /Unionist minority.

* The cultural preference by the Council is alienating Protestants. The promotion of the majority culture is felt to be at the expense of Protestant culture, by many Protestants. As a result, the principle of parity of esteem was regarded as rhetoric and only a joke.

* One has to recognise and validate the 'other' community, for parity of esteem to become meaningful.

* The council are only recognising the majority culture in the City. The unionist have argued for the democratic principle of majority rule.

* Protestants on the Waterside need to be generous to the Waterside Catholic minority.

* Catholics on the East Bank, are confident, expanding numerically and are part of the District Council majority.

* Protestant majorities in other Council areas were ungenerous and insensitive to a Catholic ethos. Generosity that needs to be shown by majorities to minorities needs to be displayed in council across Northern Ireland.

* If one local authority is failing minorities elsewhere, that can not be seen as a fit reason for this local authority to fail.

Agents and ingredients for change.
* Funding from Europe, the various Irish Funds, Britain and others could be directed into suitable housing projects.

* Employment and facilities are needed.

* The question is how we are going to achieve a mixed city? Peace is very important. There should be no more killings and deaths. The gun should be kept out of politics.

* Respect is very important. It is important to think before you speak.

* Respect is not enough. People needed to take risks and break with patterns.

* Unionist political leaders needed to take risks and be more positive.

* What are the Unionist leaders doing to encourage Protestants back to the West Bank?

* Communities can convey messages. Imagine the Free Derry Wall reading "Come Back Protestants!"

* Cross community activities are also important.

* Sport and music and the media are very important vehicles in any prospect for reintegration.

* Hallow E'en was cited as an example of celebration: Because of the last 25 years we haven't shared a common culture. Nationalists should make concessions to allow Protestants to move back to the city side.

* Integrated schooling has an important role to play in the opening of minds.

* The churches as messengers of Christ, proclaiming Christianity have a role to play in change and reconciliation rather than being preoccupied with the historical adversities of some troubled past.

* Trust needs to be building if we want to live in a mixed city. The city council is a possible agent for this.

* If the council were more able to address the social issues, they could be a better example to the community, in working and developing an ethos of respect and concern for all.

* The agent for change in all of this is the individual.

* Each individual has a responsibility to be fair and tolerant in all aspects of life. The character of the individual will be reflected in how institutions and communities are fashioned.

Perceived as threatening.

* Protestants feel that to support the advancement of Gaelic culture is to threaten Protestant culture.

* The support of the Protestant community to 'the marching season' is perceived by Catholics as threatening.

The importance of perceptions.

* The 'perceptions' are the important keys in any peace process to breaking away from the sectarian norms and a cycle that leads to war.

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